West column: Lamar foolish if it lets Knight finish season

[austin badbyrd]

If you replace Knight, at least get a coach who can recruit and has D1 experience. Maybe off the staff of Tom Izzo, Coach K, or John Thompson III. Yeah I know I'm aiming high, but why shouldn't we get the best from the best?

[geezer]

Sorry fellas, there are no guarantees. PK was a top assistant for one of the all time great coaches. Roc was a top assistant and recruiting coordinator from a top program at Memphis when Tubbs brought him to Bmt. Whether PK is here or gone, there probably won't be more than two or three spots open and I would imagine not more than two. The NCAA rules for athletes progressing to graduation will prevent anyone from forcing too many players out as it could cause LU to loose scholarships in the future.

[badndn]

Good points Geezer.
What about a JUCO success?
or
Someone in DII or NAIA?
or
Do they just pay dearly for a prooven winner at a low DI competitor?

[coachacola]

The difference between Roc and PK is that Roc had never been a HC before he took over at Lamar. PK had been the HC at Tech and was fired after 2 or 3 seasons. Roc was known as a recruiter, PK was known as Bob Knight's son.

Geezer, you're right, there are no guarantees, except maybe that Lamar will once again make the wrong hire.

[KingSnake]

Well said. As for me, I'm on the "let him stay" side. Firing a guy after two [s]bad[/s] horrible seasons seems like a no-brainer for a coach who has brought no success to a program, but that just isn't the case. Roc was a great recruiter, and we saw that with the likes of Kenny Dawkins, Mike James, and Lamar Sanders as well as a few others. However, he couldn't win with his teams. Knight came in and won the conference the first season he was here with Roc's talented recruits. That has earned him a reprieve in my book for the time being.
[/quote]

I'd much rather have a good recruiter that wants to be here (like ROC) that isn't so great with X & O's than a lousy recruiter that is a malcontent, regardless of how good a X & O guy he is. No matter how good a coach you are supposed to be, if you can't recruit, you can't win. PK obviously doesn't like it here. He thought we would be his stepping stone. Instead, he is subject failure, and has destroyed what was left of the basketball program. Bob West's message is spot on, even if you don't like the messenger

[badndn]

[quote author=KingSnake link=topic=38927.msg56912#msg56912 date=1392136891]Knight came in and won the conference the first season he was here with Roc's talented recruits.
[/quote]

Actually PK did not win the conference. LU finished third in the Conference behind UTA and SFA. Which to me is the biggest bunch of BS in college basketball today. Why play 16 games to decide in one weekend who represents your conference in the big dance?
Roc actually won the Conference in 2008.

[coachacola]

[quote author=badndn link=topic=38927.msg56923#msg56923 date=1392224681]
[quote author=KingSnake link=topic=38927.msg56912#msg56912 date=1392136891]Knight came in and won the conference the first season he was here with Roc's talented recruits.
[/quote]

Actually PK did not win the conference. LU finished third in the Conference behind UTA and SFA. Which to me is the biggest bunch of BS in college basketball today. Why play 16 games to decide in one weekend who represents your conference in the big dance?
Roc actually won the Conference in 2008.
[/quote]

Roc wins the conference with his players but doesn't get a raise or extension, while Knight comes in third but wins the SLC tourney (and NCAA bid) with Roc's players so he gets a 2 year extension and raise. Where is the logic in that? And now we're stuck with a even worse coach than Roc who gets paid more!!

To me it looks like the athletic department screwed up really bad.

[LUSportsFan]

I think we all contributed. At least I did. I thought we were on the way back. At the time, I didn't find anything wrong with the Athletic Department's moves.

I knew that we had rebuilding to go through, but expected that there would be a progression of improvement (wishful thinking??).

[badndn]

Yes. I think with PK it was thought he would bolt after a few good years so we better pony up to try and keep him, but no one really expected Roc to move on for another HC gig so no need to overpay.

[Cardinalrule]

[quote author=coachacola link=topic=38927.msg56926#msg56926 date=1392230148]
[quote author=badndn link=topic=38927.msg56923#msg56923 date=1392224681]
[quote author=KingSnake link=topic=38927.msg56912#msg56912 date=1392136891]Knight came in and won the conference the first season he was here with Roc's talented recruits.
[/quote]

Actually PK did not win the conference. LU finished third in the Conference behind UTA and SFA. Which to me is the biggest bunch of BS in college basketball today. Why play 16 games to decide in one weekend who represents your conference in the big dance?
Roc actually won the Conference in 2008.
[/quote]

Roc wins the conference with his players but doesn't get a raise or extension, while Knight comes in third but wins the SLC tourney (and NCAA bid) with Roc's players so he gets a 2 year extension and raise. Where is the logic in that? And now we're stuck with a even worse coach than Roc who gets paid more!!

To me it looks like the athletic department screwed up really bad.
[/quote]

Roc never won the conference?

[Cardinalrule]

[quote author=austin badbyrd link=topic=38927.msg56882#msg56882 date=1391998173]
All of the above comments I agree with, but lets get real. There's a lot of frustration from all ends - coach, team and fans. True, the football program started from scratch and had a bigger mountain to climb. I believe after last year's debacle, the BB team was in a bigger mess than we ever could imagine. If it wasn't Osas would still be here and there would be no problem in the post. I also believe that when Price left for Grambling and Paulino left for Fresno State, we didn't get as high level of assistants as those two. Price kept Osas motivated and after Price left, Osas went south in a hurry. Maybe it is a combination of poor recruits and inadequate coaching. I think a case can be made for both.
[/quote]

Whose fault was it that the bb team was in a mess last year? PAT KNIGHT!

[Cardinalrule]

[quote author=austin badbyrd link=topic=38927.msg56905#msg56905 date=1392088310]
If you replace Knight, at least get a coach who can recruit and has D1 experience. Maybe off the staff of Tom Izzo, Coach K, or John Thompson III. Yeah I know I'm aiming high, but why shouldn't we get the best from the best?
[/quote]

That isn't aiming high at all. And, I disagree. Find someone with head coaching experience who has proven they could win. Like at Junior College level or NAIA or Division II or III.

[Cardinalrule]

[quote author=badndn link=topic=38927.msg56910#msg56910 date=1392132662]
Good points Geezer.
What about a JUCO success?
or
Someone in DII or NAIA?
or
Do they just pay dearly for a prooven winner at a low DI competitor?
[/quote]

I'm with you. Get someone who has proven they could win. Hell, I'll take an undefeated little dribblers coach over what we have right now.

[badndn]

[quote author=Cardinalrule link=topic=38927.msg56931#msg56931 date=1392245598]
[quote author=coachacola link=topic=38927.msg56926#msg56926 date=1392230148]
[quote author=badndn link=topic=38927.msg56923#msg56923 date=1392224681]
[quote author=KingSnake link=topic=38927.msg56912#msg56912 date=1392136891]Knight came in and won the conference the first season he was here with Roc's talented recruits.
[/quote]

Actually PK did not win the conference. LU finished third in the Conference behind UTA and SFA. Which to me is the biggest bunch of BS in college basketball today. Why play 16 games to decide in one weekend who represents your conference in the big dance?
Roc actually won the Conference in 2008.
[/quote]

Roc wins the conference with his players but doesn't get a raise or extension, while Knight comes in third but wins the SLC tourney (and NCAA bid) with Roc's players so he gets a 2 year extension and raise. Where is the logic in that? And now we're stuck with a even worse coach than Roc who gets paid more!!

To me it looks like the athletic department screwed up really bad.
[/quote]

Roc never won the conference?
[/quote]
Yes. LU shared the title with SFA in 2008. Both finished conference at 13-3.

[TBonesLU]

[quote author=badndn link=topic=38927.msg56923#msg56923 date=1392224681]
[quote author=KingSnake link=topic=38927.msg56912#msg56912 date=1392136891]Knight came in and won the conference the first season he was here with Roc's talented recruits.
[/quote]

Actually PK did not win the conference. LU finished third in the Conference behind UTA and SFA. Which to me is the biggest bunch of BS in college basketball today. Why play 16 games to decide in one weekend who represents your conference in the big dance?
Roc actually won the Conference in 2008.
[/quote]

I've always agreed with this sentiment. However, in reality, the winner of the conference tournament wins the conference. It's garbage, but that's the way it is. Roc's team in '08 got a ring for being co-conference champions with SFA. That team was a better team than the one which won the tourney Knight's first year. I agree with you that the conference tournament is a horrible way to finish a season. Playing a conference schedule to give an 8-seed a chance to get hot for 3 games is terrible.