Big Props to SFA!!! Hopefully one day at Lamar.
Big Props to SFA!!! Hopefully one day at Lamar.
[quote author=Taylor link=topic=39008.msg57821#msg57821 date=1395456254]
Big Props to SFA!!! Hopefully one day at Lamar.
[/quote]
It was one day at Lamar!!! BUT NOT WITH THE LEADERSHIP WE HAVE NOW!!!! OR THE SMALL THINKING, UNBELIEVING AND EXCUSE MAKING FANS WE HAVE!!!
Way to go SFA!!! Here is one LU fan that is pulling for you guys!!
What SFA has done is downright awesome! I'm jealous, but i am happy for them.
I am not sure what you want from Lamar fans. What would you have us do or say? The AD and the President are not elected officials. I cant vote for someone else. The boosters don't have to support Lamar. Should we knock on their doors and tell them to stop supporting Lamar and take their money elsewhere? Have you been to Southeastern recently? That place is depressing. Lamar facilities are awesome. I dont want the money brokers to stop throwing their money around.
My take on this is that we are mere outsiders looking in. I have said that i thought the way this went down looks really bad.... But regardless how bad it looks to me there isnt anything i can do about it. Im going to support Price until he gives me a new reason not too. Like i said its not his fault he is the coach. Bottom line is we can accept it and move on or we can continue to be upset about something that we cant control. I choose the former. If you have thoughts on what we as fans can actually do about this situation, other than just being upset about it, let me know
[quote author=Taylor link=topic=39008.msg57821#msg57821 date=1395456254]
Big Props to SFA!!! Hopefully one day at Lamar.
[/quote]
Sorry Taylor, but you're going to have to take your congratulations and hope for the future elsewhere. This is a doom and gloom thread. Go outside and run over your dog and try again. I kid, I kid..... you forgot to put AGAIN on the end though.
[quote author=Card Nation link=topic=39008.msg57823#msg57823 date=1395481278]
What SFA has done is downright awesome! I'm jealous, but i am happy for them.
I am not sure what you want from Lamar fans. What would you have us do or say? The AD and the President are not elected officials. I cant vote for someone else. The boosters don't have to support Lamar. Should we knock on their doors and tell them to stop supporting Lamar and take their money elsewhere? Have you been to Southeastern recently? That place is depressing. Lamar facilities are awesome. I dont want the money brokers to stop throwing their money around.
My take on this is that we are mere outsiders looking in. I have said that i thought the way this went down looks really bad.... But regardless how bad it looks to me there isnt anything i can do about it. Im going to support Price until he gives me a new reason not too. Like i said its not his fault he is the coach. Bottom line is we can accept it and move on or we can continue to be upset about something that we cant control. I choose the former. If you have thoughts on what we as fans can actually do about this situation, other than just being upset about it, let me know
[/quote]
+1
[quote author=Card Nation link=topic=39008.msg57823#msg57823 date=1395481278]
What SFA has done is downright awesome! I'm jealous, but i am happy for them.
I am not sure what you want from Lamar fans. What would you have us do or say? The AD and the President are not elected officials. I cant vote for someone else. The boosters don't have to support Lamar. Should we knock on their doors and tell them to stop supporting Lamar and take their money elsewhere? Have you been to Southeastern recently? That place is depressing. Lamar facilities are awesome. I dont want the money brokers to stop throwing their money around.
My take on this is that we are mere outsiders looking in. I have said that i thought the way this went down looks really bad.... But regardless how bad it looks to me there isnt anything i can do about it. Im going to support Price until he gives me a new reason not too. Like i said its not his fault he is the coach. Bottom line is we can accept it and move on or we can continue to be upset about something that we cant control. I choose the former. If you have thoughts on what we as fans can actually do about this situation, other than just being upset about it, let me know
[/quote]
I am frustrated beyond the ability for any device to measure with almost 30 years of "poor decision" making which is supported by a mentality of the faithful who say "well times have changed and we just can't expect to be that good anymore, we are just a small school and it can't be done here again"!! That attitude supports poor leadership and allows them to continue to make losing decisions!! Every wealthy person (except trust fund babies and lottery winners) who made their fortune and achieved success had the complete opposite view about things. They believed they could do what everyone else said they couldn't, they didn't take no or any of the usual loser excuses for an answer, they rid themselves of those type of people in there organization, and they stayed focused on the goal until they acheived it!! That is the same for every great coach at every level of sports!!! We could hire a person like that but they will not come if they perceive that our leadership is inept and has a losing mentality!!!
[quote author=NorthoftheBorder link=topic=39008.msg57825#msg57825 date=1395497121]
[quote author=Card Nation link=topic=39008.msg57823#msg57823 date=1395481278]
What SFA has done is downright awesome! I'm jealous, but i am happy for them.
I am frustrated beyond the ability for any device to measure with almost 30 years of "poor decision" making which is supported by a mentality of the faithful who say "well times have changed and we just can't expect to be that good anymore, we are just a small school and it can't be done here again"!! That attitude supports poor leadership and allows them to continue to make losing decisions!! Every wealthy person (except trust fund babies and lottery winners) who made their fortune and achieved success had the complete opposite view about things. They believed they could do what everyone else said they couldn't, they didn't take no or any of the usual loser excuses for an answer, they rid themselves of those type of people in there organization, and they stayed focused on the goal until they acheived it!! That is the same for every great coach at every level of sports!!! We could hire a person like that but they will not come if they perceive that our leadership is inept and has a losing mentality!!!
[/quote]
Don't know anybody who is saying that. Somebody has to be the top dog in the SLC and there is no reason it cant be Lamar. It SHOULD be Lamar. I, and others, have tried to point out that a decision was made of which we are ignorant of the factors that went in to that decision making process. From the outside, it wasn't the decision or process I wanted. You can to continue to lash out on a message board if you choose, but that will not affect this or future decisions in the slightest.
I don't appreciate being called "small thinking" because I choose not to share in your indignation.
How does the old saying go about accepting the things you cannot change and the wisdom to know the difference?
[quote author=NorthoftheBorder link=topic=39008.msg57822#msg57822 date=1395458001]
[quote author=Taylor link=topic=39008.msg57821#msg57821 date=1395456254]
Big Props to SFA!!! Hopefully one day at Lamar.
[/quote]
It was one day at Lamar!!! BUT NOT WITH THE LEADERSHIP WE HAVE NOW!!!! OR THE SMALL THINKING, UNBELIEVING AND EXCUSE MAKING FANS WE HAVE!!! [/quote]
+100. "Umphrey University". Somebody needs to grow a pair.
Way to go SFA!!! Here is one LU fan that is pulling for you guys!!
[/quote]
Not sure about this...I suppose I am pulling for them in the tournament but that is it!! I still hate them....but the dumber we get, the more I like other schools.
There are going to be a several of you on here that are going to be eating your words in a couple of years. Y'all don't know the players, I do. Well, a couple of them at least. The players pushed for Tic Price as head coach. This is the guy they wanted and they all love him. I think they made the safe choice with Tic Price, but sometime the safe choice Is the best choice and Tic Price was the best choice. Maybe he never gets this team to a twenty win season, but if he could get them to being respectable and competitive night in and night out, then that will lead to Lamar becoming a more desirable job for coaches who are looking to take the next step and run their own programs. Let's be honest, the group of coaches that were looking at the Lamar job were not exactly the cream of the crop. Look at the big picture and not the small one. Besides, I do think he will lead this team to more than just respectability. I think he could lead Lamar back to being SLC champions.
I asked a ref if he could give me a technical foul for thinking bad things about him. He said, of course not. I said, well, I think you stink. And he gave me a technical. You can't trust 'em.
Jim Valvano
Talking with a prominent area High School coach the contacts by Tic Price were more professional than by the previous staff.A good sign for at least being in the hunt for D1 area talent and validation of Price's goal to recruit a 250 mile radius .
[quote author=Big T link=topic=39008.msg57830#msg57830 date=1395508916]
There are going to be a several of you on here that are going to be eating your words in a couple of years. Y'all don't know the players, I do. Well, a couple of them at least. The players pushed for Tic Price as head coach. This is the guy they wanted and they all love him. I think they made the safe choice with Tic Price, but sometime the safe choice Is the best choice and Tic Price was the best choice. Maybe he never gets this team to a twenty win season, but if he could get them to being respectable and competitive night in and night out, then that will lead to Lamar becoming a more desirable job for coaches who are looking to take the next step and run their own programs. Let's be honest, the group of coaches that were looking at the Lamar job were not exactly the cream of the crop. Look at the big picture and not the small one. Besides, I do think he will lead this team to more than just respectability. I think he could lead Lamar back to being SLC champions.
[/quote]
One, the PLAYERS SHOULD NEVER EVER NEVER EVER BE INVOLVED IN THE DECISION MAKING FOR A COLLEGE COACH!!!! WHAT VESTED INTEREST DO THEY HAVE BEYOND ONE OR TWO MORE YEARS?!!!
Two: "more desirable"? Which school in the southland would you rather coach? Why?
Three: "not exactly the cream of the crop". Who were the candidates other than Price? We'll never FRIGGING KNOW BECAUSE UNCLE WALTER SAID HE WANTED FRIGGING PRICE. WHAT A DAMN JOKE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[quote author=NorthoftheBorder link=topic=39008.msg57825#msg57825 date=1395497121]
[quote author=Card Nation link=topic=39008.msg57823#msg57823 date=1395481278]
What SFA has done is downright awesome! I'm jealous, but i am happy for them.
I am not sure what you want from Lamar fans. What would you have us do or say? The AD and the President are not elected officials. I cant vote for someone else. The boosters don't have to support Lamar. Should we knock on their doors and tell them to stop supporting Lamar and take their money elsewhere? Have you been to Southeastern recently? That place is depressing. Lamar facilities are awesome. I dont want the money brokers to stop throwing their money around.
My take on this is that we are mere outsiders looking in. I have said that i thought the way this went down looks really bad.... But regardless how bad it looks to me there isnt anything i can do about it. Im going to support Price until he gives me a new reason not too. Like i said its not his fault he is the coach. Bottom line is we can accept it and move on or we can continue to be upset about something that we cant control. I choose the former. If you have thoughts on what we as fans can actually do about this situation, other than just being upset about it, let me know
[/quote]
I am frustrated beyond the ability for any device to measure with almost 30 years of "poor decision" making which is supported by a mentality of the faithful who say "well times have changed and we just can't expect to be that good anymore, we are just a small school and it can't be done here again"!! That attitude supports poor leadership and allows them to continue to make losing decisions!! Every wealthy person (except trust fund babies and lottery winners) who made their fortune and achieved success had the complete opposite view about things. They believed they could do what everyone else said they couldn't, they didn't take no or any of the usual loser excuses for an answer, they rid themselves of those type of people in there organization, and they stayed focused on the goal until they acheived it!! That is the same for every great coach at every level of sports!!! We could hire a person like that but they will not come if they perceive that our leadership is inept and has a losing mentality!!!
[/quote]
DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You do need to take input from players to better understand the totality of the situation.To not do so would offend any parent of a college athlete in this situation. I also know many prominent professionals who were college athletes or had children who were college athletes and would not be as supportive if their views weren't heard.That being said after taking all relevant input I agree ultimately the decision is not for a student,booster or professor to make but is the choice of those in charge .
[quote author=baller link=topic=39008.msg1#msg1 date=1395601936]
You do need to take input from players to better understand the totality of the situation.To not do so would offend any parent of a college athlete in this situation. I also know many prominent professionals who were college athletes or had children who were college athletes and would not be as supportive if their views weren't heard.That being said after taking all relevant input I agree ultimately the decision is not for a student,booster or professor to make but is the choice of those in charge .
[/
In a situation such as this, i believe that what the athletes think and how they feel should be considered. Not that they should make the decision of course, but the admin should definitely get a gauge on what the players think and how they feel. If the athletes and the coach feel like they are in this together... If the athletes and the coach feel Like Its us against the world... Like noone believes in any of us, except us... Well, that is where nice stories can develop.
I reread Big T's post and I didn't see that the players had a direct input in hiring Coach Price. What I saw was a student saying that Price's players are behind the hiring. Evidently Price is quite a bit more engaging than PK. I also see a student who is open to having positive expectations under Price. Maybe (no, for sure) we didn't like the hiring process but maybe we should withhold judgement about Price as coach for a little while.
I've been reading--but staying away from responding--on this thread until now. I'm not understanding the vitriol being leveled against Price--not because I'm just 100% thrilled and happy about it, but because I'm pragmatic enough to understand the situation that LU is in. And given the choices available, the administration without question took the best available alternative.
Too many folks are looking that this as a choice that LU had between two alternatives:
Choice A: Hire Tic Price
Choice B: Conduct a thorough search of interested candidates, and choose the best coach of the options.
But this isn't the choice the administration had. They're still on the hook for over $400,000 worth of compensation to be paid to the colossal mistake that was Pat Knight. Money is tight, funding is being reduced at the state level, and because of the poor performance of the team over the last two seasons, revenue from both season tickets and walk-up sales is down. You can NOT ignore the impact of the money. (It's fine not to *like* it, but it is undoubtedly real). So, as I see it, the administration had three choices the day before they fired Pat Knight:
[list type=decimal]
[li] Keep Pat Knight and his Reign of Error around for another two years. We'd be busy going 4-25 for the next two seasons, as it is pretty clear from both the results of the last two seasons AND Pat Knight's own admissions ("I should have quit after 2012" WTF!?) that things were NOT going to get better when the head coach isn't willing to work hard in recruiting, and insisted on playing a scheme that was completely ill-fitted for the talent he did have available.[/li]
[li] Fire Pat Knight, tell Walter Umphrey to keep his $400,000, and go out and conduct a search for a new coach, hiring the "best available" candidate. What's the problem with this? The $400,000!! It limits what you can pay a new coach, and pretty much forces the program to compensate for the $200,000 per year the only way that they could--by playing 4-5 more "paycheck" games a year on the road against power conference programs to pay for the fact that you're now paying two coaches. This would lead to two more years of 2012-13 type schedules with virtually no home games before SLC play begins. You think this is going to excite the fan base? You think this is going to sell season tickets? You think this is going to be attractive to a new coach? In addition, because of the lack of available scholarships this year, and because of the real possibility of an APR penalty in future seasons due to all those guys Roc brought in near the end who flunked out of school, a new coach is going to demand a pretty lengthy contract to even consider the LU job. You really wouldn't be able to even judge how the new coach is doing for probably 3 years because of how long it's going to take to undo the damage done the last few years.[/li]
[li] Take Walter's money, and hire Tic Price for 2 years. It eliminates the budgetary issues. It puts the program in the hands of a capable coach (not a great one... I get that... he isn't my first choice either--but he is *capable*) who I do think has the ability to get the ship righted. Best case scenario? Price finds recruiting to LU is easier than recruiting to Rita-ravaged Lake Chuck, his coaching decisions and strategy represent an upgrade to the "Shoot a 3-Pointer Every Solar Eclipse" offense Knight had in place, and the players respond to him with high effort--we end up being competitive next year and actually respectable the year after. Worst case scenario? Is there ANY scenario worse than watching Knight lazily coach his way through the next two years? Any? The worst case is... well... two years of crappy basketball after which we'll dismiss Price, and, with our budgets back in line, will be able to make a coaching search to find the next coach. In other words, the *potential* worst case scenario under Price is the *almost certain* worst case scenario under Knight. I'll roll the dice. (I'm sorry... I get the concerns regarding the past indiscretions of Price. But it's been 15 years... and if his wife stood with him through it, I'm sure as hell willing to give him a second chance. My only concerns with Price the coach is the .500 record at McNeese.)[/li][/list]
The team looked energized and focused with Price coaching. The offensive and defensive schemes made far more sense, and attempted to at least compensate for the shortcomings the team had (versus Knight's hatred of the zone and the three-point shot, which accentuated the talent issues--if you don't have size, you'd better shoot threes. Period.) And given we know the s*** Knight said about his players to the media--when they were a 20-win team--God only knows what he was saying in private to a group that was clearly struggling for the last two seasons. Price hasn't lit the world on fire--but compared to Pat Knight!?! He's an upgrade. A serious upgrade.
This was never a choice between "Price or (insert your favorite coaching candidate here)". The financial realities of LU's situation made it a choice between "Price or Knight for the next two seasons". And, to me, only a fool would choose to have kept Knight around. It's not a coincidence the crowds picked up after he was canned. Price may not get us back to the top... but I'm pretty sure he *can* get us out of the cellar we're in now. The longest journey starts with one step. Given the choices available, this was the right choice.
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