3:00PM Press Conference Tuesday---Tic Price New Head Hoops Coach

[eagle eye]

Well said, Bruce. Thanks for the different perspective.

[BigNasty92]

[quote author=eagle eye link=topic=39008.msg1#msg1 date=1395712173]
Well said, Bruce. Thanks for the different perspective.
[

+1]

[Cardinalrule]

[quote author=Bruce link=topic=39008.msg57875#msg57875 date=1395697633]
I've been reading--but staying away from responding--on this thread until now. I'm not understanding the vitriol being leveled against Price--not because I'm just 100% thrilled and happy about it, but because I'm pragmatic enough to understand the situation that LU is in. And given the choices available, the administration without question took the best available alternative.

Too many folks are looking that this as a choice that LU had between two alternatives:
Choice A: Hire Tic Price
Choice B: Conduct a thorough search of interested candidates, and choose the best coach of the options.

But this isn't the choice the administration had. They're still on the hook for over $400,000 worth of compensation to be paid to the colossal mistake that was Pat Knight. Money is tight, funding is being reduced at the state level, and because of the poor performance of the team over the last two seasons, revenue from both season tickets and walk-up sales is down. You can NOT ignore the impact of the money. (It's fine not to *like* it, but it is undoubtedly real). So, as I see it, the administration had three choices the day before they fired Pat Knight:

[list type=decimal]
[li] Keep Pat Knight and his Reign of Error around for another two years. We'd be busy going 4-25 for the next two seasons, as it is pretty clear from both the results of the last two seasons AND Pat Knight's own admissions ("I should have quit after 2012" WTF!?) that things were NOT going to get better when the head coach isn't willing to work hard in recruiting, and insisted on playing a scheme that was completely ill-fitted for the talent he did have available.[/li]
[li] Fire Pat Knight, tell Walter Umphrey to keep his $400,000, and go out and conduct a search for a new coach, hiring the "best available" candidate. What's the problem with this? The $400,000!! It limits what you can pay a new coach, and pretty much forces the program to compensate for the $200,000 per year the only way that they could--by playing 4-5 more "paycheck" games a year on the road against power conference programs to pay for the fact that you're now paying two coaches. This would lead to two more years of 2012-13 type schedules with virtually no home games before SLC play begins. You think this is going to excite the fan base? You think this is going to sell season tickets? You think this is going to be attractive to a new coach? In addition, because of the lack of available scholarships this year, and because of the real possibility of an APR penalty in future seasons due to all those guys Roc brought in near the end who flunked out of school, a new coach is going to demand a pretty lengthy contract to even consider the LU job. You really wouldn't be able to even judge how the new coach is doing for probably 3 years because of how long it's going to take to undo the damage done the last few years.[/li]
[li] Take Walter's money, and hire Tic Price for 2 years. It eliminates the budgetary issues. It puts the program in the hands of a capable coach (not a great one... I get that... he isn't my first choice either--but he is *capable*) who I do think has the ability to get the ship righted. Best case scenario? Price finds recruiting to LU is easier than recruiting to Rita-ravaged Lake Chuck, his coaching decisions and strategy represent an upgrade to the "Shoot a 3-Pointer Every Solar Eclipse" offense Knight had in place, and the players respond to him with high effort--we end up being competitive next year and actually respectable the year after. Worst case scenario? Is there ANY scenario worse than watching Knight lazily coach his way through the next two years? Any? The worst case is... well... two years of crappy basketball after which we'll dismiss Price, and, with our budgets back in line, will be able to make a coaching search to find the next coach. In other words, the *potential* worst case scenario under Price is the *almost certain* worst case scenario under Knight. I'll roll the dice. (I'm sorry... I get the concerns regarding the past indiscretions of Price. But it's been 15 years... and if his wife stood with him through it, I'm sure as hell willing to give him a second chance. My only concerns with Price the coach is the .500 record at McNeese.)[/li][/list]

The team looked energized and focused with Price coaching. The offensive and defensive schemes made far more sense, and attempted to at least compensate for the shortcomings the team had (versus Knight's hatred of the zone and the three-point shot, which accentuated the talent issues--if you don't have size, you'd better shoot threes. Period.) And given we know the s*** Knight said about his players to the media--when they were a 20-win team--God only knows what he was saying in private to a group that was clearly struggling for the last two seasons. Price hasn't lit the world on fire--but compared to Pat Knight!?! He's an upgrade. A serious upgrade.

This was never a choice between "Price or (insert your favorite coaching candidate here)". The financial realities of LU's situation made it a choice between "Price or Knight for the next two seasons". And, to me, only a fool would choose to have kept Knight around. It's not a coincidence the crowds picked up after he was canned. Price may not get us back to the top... but I'm pretty sure he *can* get us out of the cellar we're in now. The longest journey starts with one step. Given the choices available, this was the right choice.
[/quote]

I agree 100% with the decision to fire Knight. If Uncle Walter wants to pay for it fine. But, at the end of the day, 400,000 is an insignificant sum of money for a public University with about 10,000 students.

I cannot believe that we had no other choice. Maybe some would lead us to believe it but I don't. Apparently it was done to appease Uncle Walter.

[coachacola]

I wish Lamar would have been more transparent about the process. Did they actually do a search or not? Was salary an issue so they had to go with Tic Price? Bob West was complaining in his last article that Price is only getting a 2 year deal, but if he was essentially given the job then why would he deserve more?

I really don't have a problem with Price as the head coach because over the last few decades I think a blind-folded monkey throwing darts at a phone book could have done a better job picking coaches than those in charge at Lamar have done.

[LUSportsFan]

[quote author=Cardinalrule link=topic=39008.msg57882#msg57882 date=1395759545]
[quote author=Bruce link=topic=39008.msg57875#msg57875 date=1395697633]
I've been reading--but staying away from responding--on this thread until now. I'm not understanding the vitriol being leveled against Price--not because I'm just 100% thrilled and happy about it, but because I'm pragmatic enough to understand the situation that LU is in. And given the choices available, the administration without question took the best available alternative.

Too many folks are looking that this as a choice that LU had between two alternatives:
Choice A: Hire Tic Price
Choice B: Conduct a thorough search of interested candidates, and choose the best coach of the options.

But this isn't the choice the administration had. They're still on the hook for over $400,000 worth of compensation to be paid to the colossal mistake that was Pat Knight. Money is tight, funding is being reduced at the state level, and because of the poor performance of the team over the last two seasons, revenue from both season tickets and walk-up sales is down. You can NOT ignore the impact of the money. (It's fine not to *like* it, but it is undoubtedly real). So, as I see it, the administration had three choices the day before they fired Pat Knight:

[list type=decimal]
[li] Keep Pat Knight and his Reign of Error around for another two years. We'd be busy going 4-25 for the next two seasons, as it is pretty clear from both the results of the last two seasons AND Pat Knight's own admissions ("I should have quit after 2012" WTF!?) that things were NOT going to get better when the head coach isn't willing to work hard in recruiting, and insisted on playing a scheme that was completely ill-fitted for the talent he did have available.[/li]
[li] Fire Pat Knight, tell Walter Umphrey to keep his $400,000, and go out and conduct a search for a new coach, hiring the "best available" candidate. What's the problem with this? The $400,000!! It limits what you can pay a new coach, and pretty much forces the program to compensate for the $200,000 per year the only way that they could--by playing 4-5 more "paycheck" games a year on the road against power conference programs to pay for the fact that you're now paying two coaches. This would lead to two more years of 2012-13 type schedules with virtually no home games before SLC play begins. You think this is going to excite the fan base? You think this is going to sell season tickets? You think this is going to be attractive to a new coach? In addition, because of the lack of available scholarships this year, and because of the real possibility of an APR penalty in future seasons due to all those guys Roc brought in near the end who flunked out of school, a new coach is going to demand a pretty lengthy contract to even consider the LU job. You really wouldn't be able to even judge how the new coach is doing for probably 3 years because of how long it's going to take to undo the damage done the last few years.[/li]
[li] Take Walter's money, and hire Tic Price for 2 years. It eliminates the budgetary issues. It puts the program in the hands of a capable coach (not a great one... I get that... he isn't my first choice either--but he is *capable*) who I do think has the ability to get the ship righted. Best case scenario? Price finds recruiting to LU is easier than recruiting to Rita-ravaged Lake Chuck, his coaching decisions and strategy represent an upgrade to the "Shoot a 3-Pointer Every Solar Eclipse" offense Knight had in place, and the players respond to him with high effort--we end up being competitive next year and actually respectable the year after. Worst case scenario? Is there ANY scenario worse than watching Knight lazily coach his way through the next two years? Any? The worst case is... well... two years of crappy basketball after which we'll dismiss Price, and, with our budgets back in line, will be able to make a coaching search to find the next coach. In other words, the *potential* worst case scenario under Price is the *almost certain* worst case scenario under Knight. I'll roll the dice. (I'm sorry... I get the concerns regarding the past indiscretions of Price. But it's been 15 years... and if his wife stood with him through it, I'm sure as hell willing to give him a second chance. My only concerns with Price the coach is the .500 record at McNeese.)[/li][/list]

The team looked energized and focused with Price coaching. The offensive and defensive schemes made far more sense, and attempted to at least compensate for the shortcomings the team had (versus Knight's hatred of the zone and the three-point shot, which accentuated the talent issues--if you don't have size, you'd better shoot threes. Period.) And given we know the s*** Knight said about his players to the media--when they were a 20-win team--God only knows what he was saying in private to a group that was clearly struggling for the last two seasons. Price hasn't lit the world on fire--but compared to Pat Knight!?! He's an upgrade. A serious upgrade.

This was never a choice between "Price or (insert your favorite coaching candidate here)". The financial realities of LU's situation made it a choice between "Price or Knight for the next two seasons". And, to me, only a fool would choose to have kept Knight around. It's not a coincidence the crowds picked up after he was canned. Price may not get us back to the top... but I'm pretty sure he *can* get us out of the cellar we're in now. The longest journey starts with one step. Given the choices available, this was the right choice.
[/quote]

I agree 100% with the decision to fire Knight. If Uncle Walter wants to pay for it fine. But, at the end of the day, 400,000 is an insignificant sum of money for a public University with about 10,000 students.

I cannot believe that we had no other choice. Maybe some would lead us to believe it but I don't. Apparently it was done to appease Uncle Walter.
[/quote]

The $400,000 is a large percentage of Lamar's annual men's basketball expenses, though. So it's not chump change. For example, we spent $1,379,801 on men's basketball for the one year reporting period ended 8/31/2013 according to the US Department of Education Office of Secondary Education "Equity in Athletics Data Analysis Cutting Tool".

Our men's basketball total expenses were 3rd highest in the SLC during the reporting period behind Oral Roberts ($2,482,531) and Texas A&M-Corpus Christi ($1,454,693).

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Other comparisons of the $400,000

Athletically Related Student Aid - Men's Programs: 14.34% of $2,789,510.
Total Expenses Allocated by Gender - Men's Sports: 5.8% of $6,891,904

[geezer]

Hey Cardinalrule, if $400,000 is an insignificant amount of money why don't you pony up $500,000 and get who you want as coach.

[BigNasty92]

Haha. EXACTLY!

[LAZEEK]

[quote author=geezer link=topic=39008.msg57887#msg57887 date=1395765654]
Hey Cardinalrule, if $400,000 is an insignificant amount of money why don't you pony up $500,000 and get who you want as coach.
[/quote]

Best post I have read in a while. Cardinalrule would bitch if Phil Jackson was the coach. He is just finding a reason to bitch. Typical douche bag!!

[baller]

If $400,000 was so easy we would have had a softball field sooner .We will have one soon.Our softball team and coach are in first place in the conference .What a remarkable record.The NCAA President believes by next year some form of the $2000 per year payment to student athletes will pass.We could have to raise hundreds of thousands of dollars extra per year .We need all cardinal supporters to meet future challenges.

[Cplatt]

Guys,
We were not going to pay big bucks for a new coach when we still owe that last train wreck money. Price probally stuck around for a quarter of the salary and if he don't win by the time Knights money is off the books he will be gone and we will go find the JR High coach from Danbury or something like that. Basketball is not going to be relevant again for a LONG time. Staff is a disaster, roster is a disaster, not sure about attendance but pretty sure its a disaster. Cant pay money when you don't make money. Football and Softball seem to be on the right path, use ur money to build and upgrade those facilitites. Montagne even on the agenda for a face lift? Doubt it but who knows. That's all
Cplatt

[badndn]

[quote author=baller link=topic=39008.msg57897#msg57897 date=1395798132]
The NCAA President believes by next year some form of the $2000 per year payment to student athletes will pass.We could have to raise hundreds of thousands of dollars extra per year .We need all cardinal supporters to meet future challenges.
[/quote]
If that happens it will kill DII and DIII athletics!

[NorthoftheBorder]

[quote author=LAZEEK link=topic=39008.msg57891#msg57891 date=1395787373]
[quote author=geezer link=topic=39008.msg57887#msg57887 date=1395765654]
Hey Cardinalrule, if $400,000 is an insignificant amount of money why don't you pony up $500,000 and get who you want as coach.
[/quote]

Best post I have read in a while. Cardinalrule would bitch if Phil Jackson was the coach. He is just finding a reason to bitch. Typical douche bag!!
[/quote]

I disagree but that has already been well documented!! Again, when you "settle" for something because it is convenient, it usually never works out like you want!! We are in a wait and see mode. One thing is for sure, I will not be guilty of pointing out that our leadership lacks the necessary skills to be successful just for the opportunity to be cozy with them!!!

[Cardinalrule]

[quote author=geezer link=topic=39008.msg57887#msg57887 date=1395765654]
Hey Cardinalrule, if $400,000 is an insignificant amount of money why don't you pony up $500,000 and get who you want as coach.
[/quote]

I'm not a public university or I would. Actually, I wouldn't for Lamar without replacing the AD (assuming he is the one who made this boneheaded decision).

[Cardinalrule]

[quote author=LUSportsFan link=topic=39008.msg57886#msg57886 date=1395765280]
[quote author=Cardinalrule link=topic=39008.msg57882#msg57882 date=1395759545]
[quote author=Bruce link=topic=39008.msg57875#msg57875 date=1395697633]
I've been reading--but staying away from responding--on this thread until now. I'm not understanding the vitriol being leveled against Price--not because I'm just 100% thrilled and happy about it, but because I'm pragmatic enough to understand the situation that LU is in. And given the choices available, the administration without question took the best available alternative.

Too many folks are looking that this as a choice that LU had between two alternatives:
Choice A: Hire Tic Price
Choice B: Conduct a thorough search of interested candidates, and choose the best coach of the options.

But this isn't the choice the administration had. They're still on the hook for over $400,000 worth of compensation to be paid to the colossal mistake that was Pat Knight. Money is tight, funding is being reduced at the state level, and because of the poor performance of the team over the last two seasons, revenue from both season tickets and walk-up sales is down. You can NOT ignore the impact of the money. (It's fine not to *like* it, but it is undoubtedly real). So, as I see it, the administration had three choices the day before they fired Pat Knight:

[list type=decimal]
[li] Keep Pat Knight and his Reign of Error around for another two years. We'd be busy going 4-25 for the next two seasons, as it is pretty clear from both the results of the last two seasons AND Pat Knight's own admissions ("I should have quit after 2012" WTF!?) that things were NOT going to get better when the head coach isn't willing to work hard in recruiting, and insisted on playing a scheme that was completely ill-fitted for the talent he did have available.[/li]
[li] Fire Pat Knight, tell Walter Umphrey to keep his $400,000, and go out and conduct a search for a new coach, hiring the "best available" candidate. What's the problem with this? The $400,000!! It limits what you can pay a new coach, and pretty much forces the program to compensate for the $200,000 per year the only way that they could--by playing 4-5 more "paycheck" games a year on the road against power conference programs to pay for the fact that you're now paying two coaches. This would lead to two more years of 2012-13 type schedules with virtually no home games before SLC play begins. You think this is going to excite the fan base? You think this is going to sell season tickets? You think this is going to be attractive to a new coach? In addition, because of the lack of available scholarships this year, and because of the real possibility of an APR penalty in future seasons due to all those guys Roc brought in near the end who flunked out of school, a new coach is going to demand a pretty lengthy contract to even consider the LU job. You really wouldn't be able to even judge how the new coach is doing for probably 3 years because of how long it's going to take to undo the damage done the last few years.[/li]
[li] Take Walter's money, and hire Tic Price for 2 years. It eliminates the budgetary issues. It puts the program in the hands of a capable coach (not a great one... I get that... he isn't my first choice either--but he is *capable*) who I do think has the ability to get the ship righted. Best case scenario? Price finds recruiting to LU is easier than recruiting to Rita-ravaged Lake Chuck, his coaching decisions and strategy represent an upgrade to the "Shoot a 3-Pointer Every Solar Eclipse" offense Knight had in place, and the players respond to him with high effort--we end up being competitive next year and actually respectable the year after. Worst case scenario? Is there ANY scenario worse than watching Knight lazily coach his way through the next two years? Any? The worst case is... well... two years of crappy basketball after which we'll dismiss Price, and, with our budgets back in line, will be able to make a coaching search to find the next coach. In other words, the *potential* worst case scenario under Price is the *almost certain* worst case scenario under Knight. I'll roll the dice. (I'm sorry... I get the concerns regarding the past indiscretions of Price. But it's been 15 years... and if his wife stood with him through it, I'm sure as hell willing to give him a second chance. My only concerns with Price the coach is the .500 record at McNeese.)[/li][/list]

The team looked energized and focused with Price coaching. The offensive and defensive schemes made far more sense, and attempted to at least compensate for the shortcomings the team had (versus Knight's hatred of the zone and the three-point shot, which accentuated the talent issues--if you don't have size, you'd better shoot threes. Period.) And given we know the s*** Knight said about his players to the media--when they were a 20-win team--God only knows what he was saying in private to a group that was clearly struggling for the last two seasons. Price hasn't lit the world on fire--but compared to Pat Knight!?! He's an upgrade. A serious upgrade.

This was never a choice between "Price or (insert your favorite coaching candidate here)". The financial realities of LU's situation made it a choice between "Price or Knight for the next two seasons". And, to me, only a fool would choose to have kept Knight around. It's not a coincidence the crowds picked up after he was canned. Price may not get us back to the top... but I'm pretty sure he *can* get us out of the cellar we're in now. The longest journey starts with one step. Given the choices available, this was the right choice.
[/quote]

I agree 100% with the decision to fire Knight. If Uncle Walter wants to pay for it fine. But, at the end of the day, 400,000 is an insignificant sum of money for a public University with about 10,000 students.

I cannot believe that we had no other choice. Maybe some would lead us to believe it but I don't. Apparently it was done to appease Uncle Walter.
[/quote]

The $400,000 is a large percentage of Lamar's annual men's basketball expenses, though. So it's not chump change. For example, we spent $1,379,801 on men's basketball for the one year reporting period ended 8/31/2013 according to the US Department of Education Office of Secondary Education "Equity in Athletics Data Analysis Cutting Tool".

Our men's basketball total expenses were 3rd highest in the SLC during the reporting period behind Oral Roberts ($2,482,531) and Texas A&M-Corpus Christi ($1,454,693).

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Other comparisons of the $400,000

Athletically Related Student Aid - Men's Programs: 14.34% of $2,789,510.
Total Expenses Allocated by Gender - Men's Sports: 5.8% of $6,891,904
[/quote]

So, our ANNUAL basketball budget is 1,027,000+ LESS than Oral Roberts (or 41% LESS THAN ORAL ROBERTS??). Ok...

[Cardinalrule]

[quote author=LAZEEK link=topic=39008.msg57891#msg57891 date=1395787373]
[quote author=geezer link=topic=39008.msg57887#msg57887 date=1395765654]
Hey Cardinalrule, if $400,000 is an insignificant amount of money why don't you pony up $500,000 and get who you want as coach.
[/quote]

Best post I have read in a while. Cardinalrule would bitch if Phil Jackson was the coach. He is just finding a reason to bitch. Typical douche bag!!
[/quote]

No, you are the typical douche bag. And this post by geezer is plain stupid. But that isn't surprising.

Lamar's annual revenue was 214 million in 2013. Lamar had 334 million in assets compared to 89 million in liabilities. For you folks that ride the short bus that represents a net WORTH of 245 million! Our net income was 17 million. And you friggin bozos are worried about 400,000!!!? If you are still confused...214 million divided by 365 days = 586,301/day. 400,000 doesn't even represent one days revenue! Now, I realize that a large portion of the revenue is reserved for this or that but I think anyone with half a brain gets my point.

But, whatever, keep making your pathetic excuses.

We took the easy way out and it is an embarrassment. Some of you are suck friggin Polly Anna's you would support Charles Manson if we hired him.

Go MansonMan! Yeah Big Red!!